tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4381472662149763328.post3670384477142746627..comments2023-10-23T12:09:50.512-04:00Comments on Clergy Confidential: Beyond Average Sunday Attendance (ASA)Tim Schenckhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13913584491460599491noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4381472662149763328.post-33227037233920636782013-10-17T09:27:56.000-04:002013-10-17T09:27:56.000-04:00Though I was raised Episcopalian and went to relig...Though I was raised Episcopalian and went to religious school, I'm not a churchgoer now, nor am I likely to become one. I still read a lot of Church-related blogs, check out church webpages, etc., out of curiosity and interest. Online ministry allows me to reflect on and engage with religious and spiritual issues that are important to me. It's not like I'd be going to church if online ministry wasn't happening; I just wouldn't be getting much thoughtful access to these topics at all. Just saying--I know a lot of non-churchgoing 30-somethings who get really into Lent Madness.Maynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4381472662149763328.post-30030080326971748562013-10-16T07:58:13.000-04:002013-10-16T07:58:13.000-04:00It's real ministry all right, but real ministr...It's real ministry all right, but real ministry frequently doesn't pay enough to even eat on a regular basis. In that respect clergy are generally among the most fortunate of ministers. <br><br>It's not exactly pleasant, but we need to not lose sight of the economics of being church.Jonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4381472662149763328.post-89239361631360231062013-10-18T10:30:54.000-04:002013-10-18T10:30:54.000-04:00I like the idea of the counter of "souls reac...I like the idea of the counter of "souls reached"! One indication of having reached someone is when they share something from your website with others. I am working on the development of my parish's website, and I plan to develop ways to poll people in terms of "How did you find us?" "Do you attend any Christian church?" "Did you find this blog/article spiritually helpful to you?" "What topics/spiritual questions would you like to see covered in future blog posts/articles?", etc. Looking forward to Lent Madness in 2014, btw (and to providing a link on our website, of course).Cindy. Selbyhttp://allsaints.dioet.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4381472662149763328.post-18856237550301680672013-10-16T04:25:51.000-04:002013-10-16T04:25:51.000-04:00Laura, it would be interesting to look at numbers ...Laura, it would be interesting to look at numbers -- like spiritual growth they still wouldn't tell the whole story. But perhaps there's a metric that could be developed that could measure social media interaction (hard to calculate unless there's a click or a retweet), blog traffic, website hits, page views, etc. It would be helpful to know what kind of reach a parish and its clergy/lay leaders has in spreading the gospel online. Quick, someone develop an app!Father Timhttp://www.frtim.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4381472662149763328.post-44085399754240362502013-10-18T11:01:06.000-04:002013-10-18T11:01:06.000-04:00If we are serious about taking the Gospel "Be...If we are serious about taking the Gospel "Beyond the Stained Glass Windows," then ASA not a good measurement. Our church has 300 members, and as ASA of 200, however, our youth outreach ministry sees 125 "un-churched" teens every Friday night. Our jobs group has 80 every Friday morning for conversation and prayer. Another 100 men and women attend weekly Weight for GOD! programs. Plus, we have a growing Taize Community that meets weekly. None of these ministries show up in the parochial reports. I think we need a new way to measure our "sphere of influence". ASA misses a lot, but worse, it often gives parishes permission to focus only on what happens inside the sanctuary and stay separated from the world.<br><br>I do think social media is important for communication, but I don't think it's as valuable as face to face communication. Research say interpersonal communication is 7% words, 40% tone of voice, and 53% body language. Therefore a PERFECT text message is only 7% effective at best. I'm not convinced that social media is authentic community. An excellent vehicle for communication, but weak in relational presence.Fr. Rob Goodridgehttp://gravatar.com/sgecnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4381472662149763328.post-8146389232126434192013-11-06T09:17:23.000-05:002013-11-06T09:17:23.000-05:00With respect, I disagree that ASA is should be und...With respect, I disagree that ASA is should be understood as a metric of the number of people reached by the church or touched by the gospel. Instead ASA is a proxy for the human capital a church has to do the reaching and touching. It is the analog of the income in the budget not the expenditures.<br><br>ASA is also best use as a relative measure. How does your ASA compare to your pledge income? What about outreach ministry per Sunday attendant? The numbers can be to large as well as too small. Churches trying to do more then they have the human capital to support.<br><br>ASA, pledge income, time and talant survey; these all are measures of ministry capacity. Whether that capacity is being used effectively is another question and much harder to quantify.John Millerhttp://gravatar.com/startradernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4381472662149763328.post-77658721530098233732013-10-25T20:27:21.000-04:002013-10-25T20:27:21.000-04:00Fr. Rob, while I understand how you're applyin...Fr. Rob, while I understand how you're applying research statistics on interpersonal communication, I respectfully but vehemently disagree with your conclusions that authentic community cannot be achieved through social media. In fact, I am doing my Doctor of Ministry project on this exact premise. I think you'd possibly have a point if social were just text, but since it includes video and thus is both auditory and visual, it is very much possible to experience all aspects of interpersonal communication through social. The only difference, of course, would be the distance between online community participants; the distance doesn't have to be prohibitive, though.<br><br>Furthermore, even if social were just text, the relationship building would be in the quality of the text, not the text itself, just like an in-person relationship between man and a woman develops not simply because of the actions between them, but because of the quality thereof. Body language and nonverbal cues can be overrated when delivered in authentically. <br><br>Social media can be very strong in relational presence if everyone involved in the online community are genuinely invested in making the relationship work. This investment is equally important in an in-person relationship. To give greater validation to "traditional" communities over online communities is to ignore the powerful ministry that takes place on the web on a daily basis, much of which has already been alluded to by others in this comment section. <br><br>I invite you, Fr. Rob; you, Fr. Tim (excellent article, btw); and anyone reading this to check out my project and share the info with people you think would be interested in participating. http://marcusacylar.com/dminpastorchttp://www.marcusacylar.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4381472662149763328.post-63732530770805238902013-10-16T13:21:38.000-04:002013-10-16T13:21:38.000-04:00you could get something like this Facebook "l...you could get something like this Facebook "like" counter, but make it a "Souls reached through online ministry" counter instead http://www.designboom.com/technology/fliike-real-time-facebook-like-counter-by-smiirl/Laura Catalanohttp://episcopalshare.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4381472662149763328.post-65320939602387531112013-10-16T05:38:37.000-04:002013-10-16T05:38:37.000-04:00Not being a parish priest at the moment (sounds mo...Not being a parish priest at the moment (sounds moe active than "retired"!), I miss the "action" of parish life; the justifications, not so much.Gary Goldackernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4381472662149763328.post-84342774012638055692013-10-15T11:04:42.000-04:002013-10-15T11:04:42.000-04:00Amen!Amen!John Williamsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4381472662149763328.post-43553737843839426572013-10-15T11:05:41.000-04:002013-10-15T11:05:41.000-04:00Amen amen, a thousand times, amen. My neck hurts f...Amen amen, a thousand times, amen. My neck hurts from nodding my head in vigorous agreement. <br><br>I think judicatory obsession with analytics is deeply flawed for another reason: the "long sales cycle" involved with faith formation and the expression thereof. In reality, years may elapse between the time a trusted friend says, "please come with me to my church" and someone shows up; even more time between visiting and perhaps considering regular attendance.<br><br>The fixation with onsite body count also excludes those who cannot attend either because of physical limitations or scheduling conflicts (e.g., shift workers).<br><br>But you already know all this and your faithful readers probably do as well!Meredith Gouldhttps://www.facebook.com/meredith.gouldnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4381472662149763328.post-49684347310618628722013-10-15T11:09:10.000-04:002013-10-15T11:09:10.000-04:00This is so true. One example: our little church in...This is so true. One example: our little church in Connecticut gets prayer requests from people around the country via email, phone calls, and Facebook messages because of our online presence. Our healing team faithfully prays over these needs and considers it a joyful part of ministry. <br><br>It's good to be the Church.Carolyn Clement (@singingcarolyn)http://twitter.com/singingcarolynnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4381472662149763328.post-50597157604940876772013-10-15T11:13:01.000-04:002013-10-15T11:13:01.000-04:00"Judicatory obsession with analytics" --..."Judicatory obsession with analytics" -- well put. Not just the diocese but parish leadership and clergy all feed into this as well. And Carolyn, online prayer requests are not spam! So glad to hear your parish takes these seriously.Father Timhttp://www.frtim.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4381472662149763328.post-88983573281037230292013-10-15T11:57:35.000-04:002013-10-15T11:57:35.000-04:00Are we perhaps returning to an earlier age with a ...Are we perhaps returning to an earlier age with a modern "digital" spin. I have always been amazed when looking through 19th century books on theology that they were often written by incumbents of small parishes who saw their writing as a part of their ministry of "outreach" along with the cure of souls in their parish (many of whom were housebound, or only showed their faces in church once or twice in the year). We extoll the "Holy" John Keble, but fail to recognize the small church he served where he himself swept the snow from the walk so his people would have dry feet when they came to worship. I guess all this is to say, that the "unseen" ministry - digital or otherwise - may be more important than the ASA that we post in a report.The Project (@MartyrsProject)http://twitter.com/MartyrsProjectnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4381472662149763328.post-6113852903782671402013-10-15T12:05:20.000-04:002013-10-15T12:05:20.000-04:00I started doing an intentional prayer walk that wa...I started doing an intentional prayer walk that was only supposed to be on Friday's and it has grown to a 7 day intentional prayer walk at 6;30 p.m. PDT with online prayer requests and a daily blog. We have to reach out to the differently churched. Think out of the box and into the cyber world. Connections are being made. We are making a difference in people's lives! Thank you Fr.Tim!Sara Macdonaldhttps://plus.google.com/114976642882913903079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4381472662149763328.post-78302752690993174112013-10-15T13:22:51.000-04:002013-10-15T13:22:51.000-04:00FLAT JESUS has helped too as some people have been...FLAT JESUS has helped too as some people have been known to return to the Cathedral to see if I am really going to wear FLAT JESUS around my neck until the cord frays and breaks. Hey ! Whatever it takes...Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks. Thanks to Chris Gannon at St. James, Birmingham MI.aleathia (Dolores) nicholsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4381472662149763328.post-49788040232269573632013-10-15T13:48:47.000-04:002013-10-15T13:48:47.000-04:00And yet, aren't clergy salaries and benefits a...And yet, aren't clergy salaries and benefits and prestige tied to the size of the parish? And John Keble, notwithstanding, there are certainly clergy who would not sweep snow from a walkway -- because it's not in their job descriptions.<br>To quote Madeleine L'Engle, "God didn't say count my sheep, but feed them."Sister Mary Winifredhttp://www.sistermarywinifred.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4381472662149763328.post-83778295089611536532013-10-15T15:48:37.000-04:002013-10-15T15:48:37.000-04:00Very true! Online ministry is real ministry! I wou...Very true! Online ministry is real ministry! I would add though, with Facebook insights, and other online stats, you can easily tally how many people we are reaching online. For example, St. Tim's has an ASA of 200, but our Facebook reach is 500-5,000 people per week. (I'm an enginerd/scientist, so I cant' stay away from the numbers thing).Laura Catalanohttp://episcopalshare.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4381472662149763328.post-38390696855144116202013-10-16T05:20:33.000-04:002013-10-16T05:20:33.000-04:00Wait, NO, no one develop any more apps! Feed the h...Wait, NO, no one develop any more apps! Feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, heal the sick, lift up the brokenhearted. Let's do that...and use social media to encourage others to do so as well. +Meredith Gouldhttps://www.facebook.com/meredith.gouldnoreply@blogger.com